Read PMBOK dude. Simply turn to the definition of WBS? What is a WBS? and take note that WBS is not only the first, 2nd and 3rd level of your title in your primavera or Ms project schedule.. WBS in its context includes the lowest level called work packages. MEANING, TO CREATE WBS is to breakdown activities into the lowest level of deliverables called work packages. If there are what we call first, 2nd, 3rd, etc. levels - THAT IS ONLY PART OF STRUCTURING dudes.
WBS is made of deliverables plus work. Every level is component. Lowest level is work package. See figure 5-8 on page 119 and read last three bullets on page 118 of pmbok.
Infact, I want to add, a deliverable may not be broken down to a work package level if its going to be subcontracted or due to rolling wave planning. Primavera and MS project agreed has deliverables at many levels, although the last levels are the work in itself not the deliverable.
Let us assume one has to make a house. House is the deliverable. Now, I start breaking it in several work packages and "House" being the deliverable would always remain on top and all the smaller work to accomplish it below. Now, you term those smaller work as Work Packages, Control Account, or whatever but the "Deliverable or House" would always remain on the "TOP", rest would follow.
Where is SS? I think his input is much-needed and aspired. Sadly, we have a knack of stretching any topic a bit too too too far and confusing lesser mortals like me left, right, and centre.
WBS is nothing but decomposition of deliverables into smaller manageable components, which in turn is deliverable. WBS is total work. Read 1st paragraph under section 5.3 on page 113. Work in terms of WBS is a deliverable. To achieve deliverable we need to break that in doable activities, which is the real effort or work.
Thanks Kranti for requesting me to jump in this question. I generally avoid hijacking opportunities for PMP aspirants and try to remain away from such discussions.
If I had to choose the answer out of the given choice I would have just chosen “A” without having giving any explanation. I am sure my collogue projmanpro has done the same.
The problem is Pawar Ji is into split personality syndrome for what he has written (for this question only). You write something and you understand something else. The question has been framed using line copy from PMBOK. Here is the line from PMBOK (P-133): The Create WBS process identifies the deliverables at the lowest level in the Work Breakdown Structure (WBS), the work package.
PMP question needs to be answered with some intelligence (common sense) and techniques. I agree with Pawar Ji the other side of story that it has multiple answers i.e. deliverables can be in any level of WBS…accepted, but the question is out of the given choice which is the BEST one? When you have to choose a choice between a text that matches word to word and another text with vague meaning, which one would you choose? I would choose the one that matches word to word. i.e. “A”.
Had this question be framed using some different wording, words or sentences (i.e. it did not match PMBOK line), I would have given a secondary thought.
"Any" could not be answer. Even without understanding PMBOK, by simply investigating the gramtical composition of the sentence will find "any" not the correct word to fill the blank. See, "The Create WBS process identifies the deliverables at the ANY level in the Work Breakdown Structure (WBS)." Dudes, putting the word ANY in that blank does not fit in to be gramtically correct.
Now, on the basis of PMBOK4, "ANY" is still in correct why? As what i said in my previous post, Let us look at the definition or description of Create WBS which is the main context in the question.
In page 103 of PMBOK4, 5.3 Create WBS—The process of subdividing project deliverables and project work into smaller, more manageable components. Let us investigate the sentence. Based on the sentence, where should the deliverables be located in the structure? Is it at the highest? NO. Is it at the tenth? NO. Is it at Any where? NO. Why not at Any where? It is clear in that sentence that "subdivision" or breaking down of deliverables or project works into SMALLER, MORE MANAGEABLE COMPONENTS. Meaning as per the definition, the level is specified, and where is that level where we can say "smaller"; where we can say "more manageable" IS IT NOT AT THE LOWEST LEVEL? for any specific deliverable?
Well, I am not forcing you dudes especially you my good fellow sspawar to believe me with my understanding. But i believer, you can read between the lines of my post.
In addition, i lately read my colleague saket_pmp's post which is absolutely right. Again you would notice guys that me and saket has always the same answer; very straight forward to explain and answer. I dont wonder too that saket_pmp as he introduce himself is indeed and i believe one of the best PMP trainers. :-)
I completely agree with you, “Any” actually cannot be the answer and hence I said its “vague”. The problem here is Pawar Ji is seeing WBS from tree view (I should have said in my earlier post) and I am sure same with Shweta Ahuja. When you see WBS from tree view deliverables would look to you scattered across the WBS tree. This is what is confusing them. It’s a split personality syndrome with what has been written and what’s being understood.
Pawar Ji and Shweta Ahuja: As a rule of thumb, deliverables is ALWAYS at the lowest level (Please come out of tree view).
In this whole contest I appriciate Dude Projman, after meeting PMBOK references and details
He actually could succeed to explore the facts why PMBOK is saying like this and why this Questions answer is so debatable.
Without referring PMBOK , or any authentic source, nobody can go for answer - LOWEST.
But as soon you refer PMBOK - answer would be reversed.
As projman has already explained why it is so, I little add more in very common language.
PMBOK says
Create WBS process identifies deliverables at its lowest level
= its meaning is Create WBS process recognise Deliverables at its lowest decomposed WBS forms
in another word - Create WBS process does not contain delivarables in its WBS anywhere, (you can say even it does not recognise even Delivarables anywhere directly in full, it is found there in decomposed(destructured forms ) many lowest maneagable work packages.
---------------------------
Next scenario of this question is , Quesioners make thier questions referring with PMBOK, its always a practice.
But those line when taken out in form of a question becomes how critical you can see.
the word - IDENTIFIES is creating 2 meanings- one is FIXES and other is RECOGNISE or DEFINE
When you use FIXES = answer will be HIGHEST
When you use recognise or define = answer will be LOWEST
THis quesion is given in Chrstopher Scordo - and its answer with reference of PMBOK p103 is given there - Lowest.
When I saw question 1st time I answered only HIGHEST. MY message with post is now very clear.
I cant really understand why some of us here are making and complicating very simple idea. The question is a copy paste of a line in the PMBOK4 itself, so what's the issue? tsk tsk tsk!
Sometimes these ideas instead of helping other PMP aspirants understand the knowledge turns them to a big confusion.
Ops! They way you have applied your thinking and intelligence, even PMI as a team would not have thought over it.
I am happy to know that the question author feels the same and directs to the same PMBOK line for simple and clear answer. I am sure other certified professional would say the same unlike projmanpro.
It’s your choice as life is yours, if you want to make simple/clear things complicated, please go ahead. All I can say is that around 60-70% PMP questions are simple where majority of people score and that the reason why we have so many PMP holders today. If you make these 60-70% PMP questions complicated with over thinking, it’s difficult to pass the PMP exam and you will also confuse others in this forum. We should apply mind wherein required. This might sound bitter, but as a helper, it’s necessary to write these.
Life is simple if you take life and things simple. All the best!
I just wanted to understand the perspective of sspawar, though even i understand that it is a statement straight from PMBOK.
Mr.Saket, with all the due respects to your experience in profession and life, do we need cynical statements to be made, like "Ops! They way you have applied your thinking and intelligence, even PMI as a team would not have thought over it. " may it be for anyone.
Don’t worry about those words. In reality and honestly, I was smiling while writing those lines. I was smiling because I realized Pawar Ji thinks very high and that’s what I wrote.
Human life journey is never a straight line and so are daily events full of communications. Expressions, aggressiveness and passion should be part of communication and one should understand what being said and why rather on negative side of a fruitful communication.
Let Pawar Ji decide if that hurts him as that lines were to him and if in case he feels, I will respond him as appropriate.
Shweta Ahuja
Sat, 09/22/2012 - 09:34
Permalink
d
d
Shweta Ahuja
Sat, 09/22/2012 - 09:37
Permalink
On second thoughts only
On second thoughts only major deliverables are at the highest level. So deliverables can be at any level but definitely higher than work packages.
projmanpro
Sat, 09/22/2012 - 10:25
Permalink
a
Answer must be A
sspawar
Sat, 09/22/2012 - 12:06
Permalink
Here is two different
Here is two different answers, very inconvinient without proper explanation,
Please give supporting feedbacks for your answers.
Regards
projmanpro
Sat, 09/22/2012 - 12:17
Permalink
Read PMBOK dude
Read PMBOK dude. Simply turn to the definition of WBS? What is a WBS? and take note that WBS is not only the first, 2nd and 3rd level of your title in your primavera or Ms project schedule.. WBS in its context includes the lowest level called work packages. MEANING, TO CREATE WBS is to breakdown activities into the lowest level of deliverables called work packages. If there are what we call first, 2nd, 3rd, etc. levels - THAT IS ONLY PART OF STRUCTURING dudes.
sspawar
Sat, 09/22/2012 - 17:58
Permalink
so why Shweta is wrong
so why Shweta is wrong
Shweta Ahuja
Sat, 09/22/2012 - 19:18
Permalink
WBS is made of deliverables
WBS is made of deliverables plus work. Every level is component. Lowest level is work package. See figure 5-8 on page 119 and read last three bullets on page 118 of pmbok.
Shweta Ahuja
Sat, 09/22/2012 - 19:28
Permalink
Infact, I want to add, a
Infact, I want to add, a deliverable may not be broken down to a work package level if its going to be subcontracted or due to rolling wave planning. Primavera and MS project agreed has deliverables at many levels, although the last levels are the work in itself not the deliverable.
sspawar
Sun, 09/23/2012 - 01:00
Permalink
Both are giving reference of
Both are giving reference of PMBOK
Answer is just opposite
Is it paradox ?
Dear dude of the dudes proman
Where is Shweta wrong , you both fundamentally giving only the one and the same and authentic reason (basis) but answer is going opposite.
Why?
krantikumar50
Sun, 09/23/2012 - 01:41
Permalink
I feel...
Dear Respected Pawarji Sir, et al,
Let us assume one has to make a house. House is the deliverable. Now, I start breaking it in several work packages and "House" being the deliverable would always remain on top and all the smaller work to accomplish it below. Now, you term those smaller work as Work Packages, Control Account, or whatever but the "Deliverable or House" would always remain on the "TOP", rest would follow.
Where is SS? I think his input is much-needed and aspired. Sadly, we have a knack of stretching any topic a bit too too too far and confusing lesser mortals like me left, right, and centre.
Njoi.... KK....
Shweta Ahuja
Sun, 09/23/2012 - 03:57
Permalink
WBS is nothing but
WBS is nothing but decomposition of deliverables into smaller manageable components, which in turn is deliverable. WBS is total work. Read 1st paragraph under section 5.3 on page 113. Work in terms of WBS is a deliverable. To achieve deliverable we need to break that in doable activities, which is the real effort or work.
So deliverable can be at ANY level.
saket_pmp
Sun, 09/23/2012 - 04:39
Permalink
I would have just chosen “A”
Thanks Kranti for requesting me to jump in this question. I generally avoid hijacking opportunities for PMP aspirants and try to remain away from such discussions.
If I had to choose the answer out of the given choice I would have just chosen “A” without having giving any explanation. I am sure my collogue projmanpro has done the same.
The problem is Pawar Ji is into split personality syndrome for what he has written (for this question only). You write something and you understand something else. The question has been framed using line copy from PMBOK. Here is the line from PMBOK (P-133):
The Create WBS process identifies the deliverables at the lowest level in the Work Breakdown Structure (WBS), the work package.
PMP question needs to be answered with some intelligence (common sense) and techniques. I agree with Pawar Ji the other side of story that it has multiple answers i.e. deliverables can be in any level of WBS…accepted, but the question is out of the given choice which is the BEST one? When you have to choose a choice between a text that matches word to word and another text with vague meaning, which one would you choose? I would choose the one that matches word to word. i.e. “A”.
Had this question be framed using some different wording, words or sentences (i.e. it did not match PMBOK line), I would have given a secondary thought.
Saket, PMP
projmanpro
Sun, 09/23/2012 - 04:59
Permalink
"Any" could not be answer
"Any" could not be answer. Even without understanding PMBOK, by simply investigating the gramtical composition of the sentence will find "any" not the correct word to fill the blank. See, "The Create WBS process identifies the deliverables at the ANY level in the Work Breakdown Structure (WBS)." Dudes, putting the word ANY in that blank does not fit in to be gramtically correct.
Now, on the basis of PMBOK4, "ANY" is still in correct why? As what i said in my previous post, Let us look at the definition or description of Create WBS which is the main context in the question.
In page 103 of PMBOK4, 5.3 Create WBS—The process of subdividing project deliverables and project work into smaller, more manageable components. Let us investigate the sentence. Based on the sentence, where should the deliverables be located in the structure? Is it at the highest? NO. Is it at the tenth? NO. Is it at Any where? NO. Why not at Any where? It is clear in that sentence that "subdivision" or breaking down of deliverables or project works into SMALLER, MORE MANAGEABLE COMPONENTS. Meaning as per the definition, the level is specified, and where is that level where we can say "smaller"; where we can say "more manageable" IS IT NOT AT THE LOWEST LEVEL? for any specific deliverable?
Well, I am not forcing you dudes especially you my good fellow sspawar to believe me with my understanding. But i believer, you can read between the lines of my post.
In addition, i lately read my colleague saket_pmp's post which is absolutely right. Again you would notice guys that me and saket has always the same answer; very straight forward to explain and answer. I dont wonder too that saket_pmp as he introduce himself is indeed and i believe one of the best PMP trainers. :-)
saket_pmp
Sun, 09/23/2012 - 05:06
Permalink
I completely agree with...
I completely agree with you, “Any” actually cannot be the answer and hence I said its “vague”. The problem here is Pawar Ji is seeing WBS from tree view (I should have said in my earlier post) and I am sure same with Shweta Ahuja. When you see WBS from tree view deliverables would look to you scattered across the WBS tree. This is what is confusing them. It’s a split personality syndrome with what has been written and what’s being understood.
Pawar Ji and Shweta Ahuja:
As a rule of thumb, deliverables is ALWAYS at the lowest level (Please come out of tree view).
Saket, PMP
projmanpro
Sun, 09/23/2012 - 05:44
Permalink
totally agree with you
I totally agree with you saket.
I hope everything is now clear to pawar and other guys there.
Shweta Ahuja
Sun, 09/23/2012 - 06:51
Permalink
Thanks Saket!!
Thanks Saket!!
krantikumar50
Sun, 09/23/2012 - 12:20
Permalink
Story Pack...
End of story. Kahani pack.
Now, SS says lowest with the page number, so thats it. And that too with proof, ie page number of PMBOK, the Bible. Bas ab aur kuch nahi...
No wonder, I invited SS to the discussion :)
Regards SS... KK...
sspawar
Mon, 09/24/2012 - 04:32
Permalink
Dear AllIn this whole
Dear All
In this whole contest I appriciate Dude Projman, after meeting PMBOK references and details
He actually could succeed to explore the facts why PMBOK is saying like this and why this Questions answer is so debatable.
Without referring PMBOK , or any authentic source, nobody can go for answer - LOWEST.
But as soon you refer PMBOK - answer would be reversed.
As projman has already explained why it is so, I little add more in very common language.
PMBOK says
Create WBS process identifies deliverables at its lowest level
= its meaning is Create WBS process recognise Deliverables at its lowest decomposed WBS forms
in another word - Create WBS process does not contain delivarables in its WBS anywhere, (you can say even it does not recognise even Delivarables anywhere directly in full, it is found there in decomposed(destructured forms ) many lowest maneagable work packages.
---------------------------
Next scenario of this question is , Quesioners make thier questions referring with PMBOK, its always a practice.
But those line when taken out in form of a question becomes how critical you can see.
the word - IDENTIFIES is creating 2 meanings- one is FIXES and other is RECOGNISE or DEFINE
When you use FIXES = answer will be HIGHEST
When you use recognise or define = answer will be LOWEST
THis quesion is given in Chrstopher Scordo - and its answer with reference of PMBOK p103 is given there - Lowest.
When I saw question 1st time I answered only HIGHEST. MY message with post is now very clear.
-------------------------------------------
Thanks-----
anand_kl
Mon, 09/24/2012 - 06:27
Permalink
Deliverables
Dear sspawar,
While I agree with you, i have a question.
The PMBOK says "The create WBS process identifies the deliverables at the lowest level in the work breakdown structure(WBS), the work package"
Should the above sentence, for the purpose of interpretation be read as:
"The create WBS process identifies the deliverables TILL (at) the lowest level in the work breakdown structure(WBS), the work package"
Regards,
Anand KL, PMP
projmanpro
Mon, 09/24/2012 - 06:38
Permalink
I cant really understand why
I cant really understand why some of us here are making and complicating very simple idea. The question is a copy paste of a line in the PMBOK4 itself, so what's the issue? tsk tsk tsk!
Sometimes these ideas instead of helping other PMP aspirants understand the knowledge turns them to a big confusion.
tsk tsk tsk
saket_pmp
Mon, 09/24/2012 - 08:00
Permalink
Ops! The way you have...
Ops! They way you have applied your thinking and intelligence, even PMI as a team would not have thought over it.
I am happy to know that the question author feels the same and directs to the same PMBOK line for simple and clear answer. I am sure other certified professional would say the same unlike projmanpro.
It’s your choice as life is yours, if you want to make simple/clear things complicated, please go ahead. All I can say is that around 60-70% PMP questions are simple where majority of people score and that the reason why we have so many PMP holders today. If you make these 60-70% PMP questions complicated with over thinking, it’s difficult to pass the PMP exam and you will also confuse others in this forum. We should apply mind wherein required. This might sound bitter, but as a helper, it’s necessary to write these.
Life is simple if you take life and things simple. All the best!
Saket, PMP
anand_kl
Mon, 09/24/2012 - 08:25
Permalink
Deliverables
Dear Friends,
I just wanted to understand the perspective of sspawar, though even i understand that it is a statement straight from PMBOK.
Mr.Saket, with all the due respects to your experience in profession and life, do we need cynical statements to be made, like "Ops! They way you have applied your thinking and intelligence, even PMI as a team would not have thought over it. " may it be for anyone.
Regards,
Anand KL, PMP
saket_pmp
Mon, 09/24/2012 - 17:24
Permalink
Hey Anand...
Hey Anand,
Don’t worry about those words. In reality and honestly, I was smiling while writing those lines. I was smiling because I realized Pawar Ji thinks very high and that’s what I wrote.
Human life journey is never a straight line and so are daily events full of communications. Expressions, aggressiveness and passion should be part of communication and one should understand what being said and why rather on negative side of a fruitful communication.
Let Pawar Ji decide if that hurts him as that lines were to him and if in case he feels, I will respond him as appropriate.
Saket, PMP
sspawar
Mon, 09/24/2012 - 11:13
Permalink
Dear ANANDYes I agree with
Dear ANAND
Yes I agree with your view.
"The create WBS process identifies the deliverables TILL (at) the lowest level in the work breakdown structure(WBS), the work package"
It has a total impact on the insite of WBS versus DELIVERABLE relationship.
and it will help to understand any body rather getting confusing over PMBOK lines.
Thanks
rameshbabu
Mon, 09/24/2012 - 19:52
Permalink
Should be A, right?
Hi sspawar,
Should be A, right?
Regards,
Rameshbabu, PMP
mohitkum
Tue, 09/25/2012 - 07:00
Permalink
I would choose "A"
Excellent discussion. Fantastic!
I would choose "A".
Thanks & Regards,
Mohit Kumar (PMP)