Failed 3rd time

Submitted by stantheman78 on Tue, 08/30/2011 - 12:45

Took the test yesterday and felt really good all the way through. I've been getting 86% on my pm fast track exams, my study guide, and the Rita's book.  I  do not know what more to do. I really have a tough time with the wording of the questions and my mind goes crazy thinking.....do they mean this or do they mean that.

I recall a question asking about what a project manager should do if their company is thinking about going forward with a project. Two of the answers were late in the plainning process but there were two that got my mind going. Risks and the project charter. I did not know if the answer was referring to high level risks or not.

Now I have to wait a year for a retake. Do I need to go through the entire application again?  I felt like I waste an entire year of my life and lots of money.  I probably will nor pursue it again. 

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subratoroy

Wed, 08/31/2011 - 15:11

It would always help if you post a bit about

 - your work experience

 - whether you underwent a structured project management training or not (how did you earn your PDUs)

- kind of processes your company follows i.e. to say PMBOK processes feels similar or they feel totally new to you

- finally your grades in the tests you failed, maybe you just slipped by a bit or there is pattern in your low grades that did not notice

You need to rationally analyze your current capability with respect to PMBOK.

I'll watch this thread and help in best possible manner.

Regards

 - Subrato, PMP

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RP

Fri, 09/02/2011 - 13:26

There is definitely an issue with your experience or study approach. Post your past 3 study plans, we could possibly do a quick diagnostic...

TRVi

Fri, 09/02/2011 - 13:55

 How many years of PM experience you claimed and what is your current role?.... I think complexity of questions and cut-off marks are based on some factors... pls post the details...

More qualified...highly experienced people are facing this problem... is this correct? 

stantheman78

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 12:01

Hey All,

I am an IT project manager. I have been doing PM since 2007.  My company does have a PMO but it does not follow the PMbok ways. However there are many similarities. I have taken a 35 hour course last year in which I was given a binder with summaries of each process/questions. I also bought the Rita book and a tiny Q and A book loaded with questions. The first time around I studied for 1 month from these 3 sources and was getting 70% on my practice exams. I had not read the PMbok at this time since the instructor said to use the binder that was handed out as it was all I need just to pass. I scored moderately proficient in ethics only. I really bombed the test the first time and was totally surprised by the type of questions.

2nd time I studied hard for 2 months about an hour each day and 3 hours on the weekend. I worked on memorizing inputs outputs tools. I wrote down important definitions, crated flash cards. Used PmBok as a reference guide instead of the binder.  I also bought PM fast track exam program and did 200 questions from each process and 2 pmp exams.  I felt a lot better since the questions on PMfast track seemed similar to the exam. I perfected my brain dump the last week before the exam. Failed exam. Improved by getting mod proficient in ethics, closing, initiation. After the exam I did a brain dump of all the questions/topics/words that through me off so I can review.

3rd time. Studied 1 month after the 2nd failed exam. Read the PmBok entirely. Studied 2 hrs per night, longer of weekends by doing question after question in the Rita and PM Fast track program. I felt I understood the ways of the PMI at this point. Still failed with moderately proficient in initiation, planning, closing, ethics the rest below.

What do I need to do in the next year to prepare? Read the PMBok 30 minutes per night or put al my material into the fire pit and give up?

vishalharshvardhan

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 12:37

Your history gives me goosebumps since i am a second timer as well :(

subratoroy

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 15:34

Okay, lot of what you wrote makes sense to me. Not reading the PMBOK thoroughly the first time was a primary reason you felt surprised with the type of the questions being presented.

Anyway what's done is done. Lets move forward.

Reading PMBOK is not enough. However, I'd not advise you to take up Rita's book, Kim's book, Andy's book etc. etc., so on and so forth. There is no contradiction is what I wrote here.

Please look at the PMBOK as the framework to be understood. It also gives you a standardised set of "trade lingo" that PMI assumes is used by project management professionals. So, PMBOK presents you with the breadth of the knowledge needs to mastered, but it does not provide you with the depth.

Lets take an example. The HR management KA has a phrase called "Organizational Theory". But there is not further explanation on the topic. If the instructor provided notes of texts or the preparatory books does not explain you much, then ones needs to read some good books on the topic. Internet is your friend.

I had issues with arriving at correct conclusions when given a set of project schedule data. What does it means? Although I could draw the network diagram, calculate floats, determine start and end dates, I do used to make mistakes while taking decisions like, is crashing required? There are more that one critical path which one to crash first?

Have you analyzed your answers on EVM questions? Just solving the EVM numericals correctly gives one a false sense of security. In real life this is done by MS Project / Prima Vera very well, the value of the project managers comes to the fore when they take decisions based on those data. PMP questions are very similar to these lines. There could be similar issues in your preparation with other topics.

Are you a PMI member? If yes then you already have access to excellent material on difficult topics like EVM, Scheduling, Config management, WBS, Critical Chain Management etc.

Attempting mocks tests does not constitute preparation for exam. It only benchmarks your preparation based on some heuristics (if one scores 80+ then PMP can be cleared blah blah).

So do the following:

1. Read PMBOK with a fresh mind.

2. Read specific topics from outside sources if required.

3. Analyze and consolidate whatever you read. Say for example, are you able to draw a flow of "Work performance information" -> "Work performance measurement" -> "Report performance" -> "Distribute information"? Your ITTO's will fall in place.

4. Try to map your company's PM processes to PMBOK and also try to find equivalent of PMBOK documents in your own projects. It will be worthwhile exercise.

5. Post your questions and queries here.

Disclaimer: I hope PMI does not adminsters increasing level of difficulty for repeat attempt candidates.

Finally, don't give up.

stantheman78

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:29

Thank you for taking time to reply.

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admin

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 05:28

Excellent Post Subrata.


It may seem a little shameless, But I strongly recommend people to buy PMZilla book if they have failed. its a real eye opener.

satish_multi

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 12:02

Nicely Written Subrato, i do agree with you with most of your points and all PMP aspirants should understand that mock tests should be used to find our gaps in studies and to get a fair idea what type of questions to be expected in the exam and most importantly it should not considered as a benchmark to pass PMP exam.


Subrato I dont think PMI will administer level of difficulty for repeat attempt candidates as i beleive it will be very difficult to maintain and manage diffrent question sets for diffrent PMP aspirants and based on thier status (i.e repeat exam or no of PM experience)


Regards


Satish

JM

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 21:53

 I have 15 years of experience as a PM. I took a boot camp from my local PMI chapter (4 straight weeks on Saturdays). The basis was the Crosswinds study package. It included and exam prep application. I didnt spend a lot of time reading the PMBOK before the class, and didnt reference it at all during my study in prep for the class. The instructors said that the crosswind material was all that we needed. I did good on some of the practice exams.  I took the exam on 8/30 for the first time and I failed. I thought for sure I had passed. A guy that I went in with thought that he failed and he PASSED. We studied together, and even by his own admission he doesnt know more than I do, and he didnt reference the PMBOK either. I've talked to a couple of other people that didnt use the PMBOK either and they passed. I bought Paul Sanghera's book too, but that was essentially useless as I had all of that info in the crosswinds book.

Then last night, I took the exam prep from PMStudy, which is VERY similar to the actual test. It was constantly referring to terms in the PMBOK, and I got a lot of those wrong. I also got a lot of the questions wrong that were phrased like "you've completed TASK1, now what do you do next". So I have to improve on the flow of it all. The ITTO's also killed me, but I talked to a lot of people that passed that said they didnt even concentrate on memorizing the ITTO's. 

I think my next step will be to basically memorize the PMBOK and continue to take practice tests, and then take the real test again in about a month with constant study between now and then.

Does anybody have any other suggestions? should i focus heavily on the PMBOK at this point? Has anyone used the Crosswinds study pack, and if so what was your experience and did you use anything else? Can anyone recommend any other prep exams other than PMStudy? I would even be willing to pay for one at this point.

This whole experience has been truly bizarre, especially give the fact that on the same day my buddy passed, and I failed, we studied together with the same materials, and it doesnt appear that he knew anymore than I did.

Thanks!

bhpepper

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 00:48

Have you followed the project management principles as contained in PMI's PMBOK Guide

JM

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 01:27

 At a high level, but not to the extent that is in the PMBOK until a couple of years ago when I became a PMI member. Also, almost all of my co-workers are certified, so in the last year, they have implemented all of the processes at my current job. Bottom line - nothing in it is new to me.

Thanks!

bhpepper

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 02:52

thats good you are versed in PMI methodolgy and have practical experience...

remember the PMP tests the knowledge of a PM with 3 yrs experience, no more or less
remember the PMP tests the PMI way of PM, no other way, right or wrong the PMI way is the right way

so when you take practice tests:

-what areas are you weak in?
-when you review your wrong answers do you understand why you got them wrong?
-have you gone back and drilled the KA's individually?
-Re-read the KA searching for your gaps?
-re-tested KA's and Full 4hr tests
-you should be taking tests constantly including full length exams
-prior to sitting you should have close to 2000 questions under your belt
-there must be a reason for missing this, only you know

 

I took the Crosswinds course and thought it was good, i did 4 days in a row. My course of study was as follows:

-Headfirst
-PMBOK
-Tried Rita (could not do it, did not read it)
-read quickly half the Crosswinds material to fill in gaps in KA's prior to actual course
-crosswinds  classroom course
-read last half of crosswinds material
-Crosswinds test engine extensively, every option available under the accelerated and expert option (60sec per Q)
-brainbok

I tried to re-read headfirst and PMBOK, could not - used crosswinds to fill gaps and do quick read-through
Did not memorize ITTO at all, though did take ITTO quizes on brainbok


 

JM

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 20:29

 thanks for the comments. In terms of the CrossWinds app, it was constantly bombing, but i finally got it on track today. I will use the PMBOK for reference only. I cannot read it cover to cover. Instead, i bought a package deal from PMI that includes a distilled version of it called "a users manual to the PMBOK guide". It is written by process not KA. (if anyone has ever used it as a basis for study, let me know how they made out.). In addition, i will start using the crosswinds book for reference too. This Friday I am getting Rita's book from a friend. He passed but didnt use it at all. There is no way I can memorize all of the ITTO's. I have tried but it is way to time consuming as they really need to be written down to be memorized and I feel i can use that time more wisely. 

thanks